General Chat and Discussion vs Underground

[Starkadder]

Recently we have had several news events, that have been relegated to the Underground. There was no notification from the moderators, as to why these valid news events were thrown into Hades.

The latest event was the 14 year old girl who threatened the President. Another one was the Amish school shootings.

These topics had not degenerated into name calling, nor were they supporting illegal activities, and finally nor had they gone off topic.

The moderators still have not answered any questions as to why these topics are pulled. If we the members knew what behavior was causing these topics to be pulled, I am sure we wouldn't be doing it. As it is, it is very frustating to watch good topics getting thrown on the trash heap, without any explanation.

[Hayeate]

They do it for the lulz.

[solarenemy]

They do it so they appear to be doing moderator stuff.

[Covvie]

They were shot down before it could get ugly...




Or maybe HongFire has its branch of secret services.

[ShadowZero1]

I've been wondering about who does the shifting too...

I doubt the "shot down before it gets ugly" theory. There have been things that got ugly and didn't get sent to the Underground.

How does THIS (http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58251) make it out of the Underground anyways?

[Talon87]

@ShadowZero: I've been wondering that, as well. ^^; I'm more surprised by off-topic randomness escaping the Underground than (what one man views as) a piece of treasure going into the Underground.

I mean ....... if you think about it, over half of the community has been a member since that thread's creation date. Sort of seems odd to not see a thread like that locked, much less promoted from UG status to CC status.

[darkandshadow]

All I can say is that nobody knows anymore...really.
One point to add is that games are not allowed in the Underground
anymore...so...**shrugs**

[Starkadder]

The moderators themselves apparently wish to remain silent on the matter. Perhaps there is dissension amongst the moderators on this discussion.

[Desmonthes]

Shadow and Talon, please give me some threads that should not be in Underground - except politic thread, I don't deal with them.

[Lisa Hayes]

games are allowed in the underground.

Inform me personally if otherwise stated.

[darkandshadow]

@Lisa: There already was one person
who brought the matter to you...
remaining them anomynous for reasons.

Can I bring back a couple of the games
that were closed down then?

Ie: 3 Word Story & (That game that choose one thing or the other...can't think of the name at the moment...>_<)
|
---> Chips or Pretzels?
Pretzels because I like them better ^^

Pepsi or Coke?
(That's the game I'm talking about)

[stukasa]

Ie: 3 Word Story & (That game that choose one thing or the other...can't think of the name at the moment...>_<)
|
---> Chips or Pretzels?
Pretzels because I like them better ^^

Pepsi or Coke?
(That's the game I'm talking about)
"A Little Game"? :p

[darkandshadow]

@Stukasa: Sure. I'll take it :)
(Remember, I have bad memory! xD)

If I get the ok to bring them back from the dead, I'll start those two games up ^^
(Well, just re-read the entire thread...and if Lisa says the games are ok...so I'll start with the 3 word story only ^^)

[Starkadder]

Guess the Amish shooting and the Secret Service vs the 14 year old girl threads, are off-limits for discussion as to why they were shifted.

[Talon87]

Shadow and Talon, please give me some threads that should not be in Underground - except politic thread, I don't deal with them.
First off, I just want to say that I was voicing confusion on spam-like threads that escape the Underground, and not treasure that shouldn't remain there. (That is and remains starkadder's focus.)

Now ... without trying to be rude any more than I have to be (to answer you honestly), I would say that a thread like Oh God! I been a member for 2 years now... (http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58251) is pretty braindead spam. I have the impression that The Community Centre is (with the exception of New Member Introductions) not supposed to be a forum where people post self-congratulatory or self-marvelling threads that people can do little to reply to other than to say one of the following:
(a) "Good job! :D" and similar congrats
(b) "This is spam :rolleyes: " and similar criticizing / trolling (depending on your opinion)
(c) "I'm 2 years old, too!" and other joining-in-on-the-fun replies
(d) ignore it

A thread like this doesn't seem to help the community at all. It seems to be a post-count padder, pure and simple. Somebody was bored, noticed that they've been a member for two years, and made a thread. Every member and his mother who has also been a member for two years (all X hundred of them) has gradually been replying to the thread saying, "Yeah man! Me too!" I dunno, I just find it specious when a thread that doesn't (appear to) violate TOS for the general discussion gets moved to the Underground, but a thread like the one I've listed is permitted to remain in The Community Centre.

If you're thinking right now, "Well nobody complained before. :confused: Why didn't somebody tell us sooner?" I can honestly give my answers, and you'll have to ask others for theirs:
(1) Frankly, I watch what I write because I've become afraid to speak candidly, afraid that I might be reprimanded and/or banned for simply trying to speak my mind on forum-rulings. I've become this way because it seems that the HF staff has had it up to their necks with users trying to tell them how to do their jobs, and they've had enough and are dealing with that problem by saying, "The next person who tells the mods they're doing their job improperly gets the whip." I don't want to get the whip, so I don't (often) write things like this. You asked me to explain myself this time, and I feel you deserve an honest reply. So here it is: my explanation for why I don't understand how a thread that (as I see it, pure spam, which) offers no real merit to the Community stays in The Community Centre while more community-worthwhile threads have been carted off to no-man's land.

(2) I think other people feel the same way I do. You'll have to ask them.

(3) I didn't voice this consternation until two braver people than me spoke up -- the creator of this thread, and ShadowZero. Maybe other people will speak up (yea or nay) when they see this. But perhaps that would not be a good thing, if (as I suspect) the staff is agitated with members criticizing thread deletion/moving/closing decisions to the point that martial law seems to be in effect.



I hope you took the time to read all of this. Maybe you (or another staff member) can explain to me why I am wrong. Perhaps I have a misguided notion of what roles The Community Centre, General Discussion, and The Underground are supposed to serve. Also, I read that the thread "I've been a member for 2 years!? :O" was moved from Underground to CC. If this is incorrect, then I've been misinformed and am in turn misinforming others by propogating this idea. Nip it in the butt immediately, and please tell me personally, if the thread was never ever posted in the Underground and has *always* been in the CC. (I have only ever seen it in the Community Centre, but most of my complaints still remain. From the start, I was surprised that the thread was not locked, deleted, or moved immediately.)

I also want to apologize to anybody offended by my calling the "I've been here 2 years! :O" thread spam. I am just speaking honestly, though -- it is my opinion that the thread is spam, and was spam from the very first post. This doesn't mean that spam cannot be fun and good. It's just puzzling to see spam in such a (historically) non-spam forum as The Community Centre.

[BruceKO]

I guess Community Centre (cool it's spelled the English way) is a place where memebers are supposed to get to know each other/become friends at.

So I guess anything that would make any part of the community (in this case the old community) feel welcomed belongs in this section.

The inevitable fact is that mods/admins just treasure the old timers more than others. (b/c c'mon they were a tight little community in HF's golden times)

Maybe the mods/admins miss those old timers and moved to the community centre to encourage replies from the old timers, inflict some good memories.

Sure, it could be spammy, but the admins/mods/old members just like it.

You can say the favorism of old members is a form of elitism.

However, they did build up the community and I guess you gotta give'em some respect for it.

That's all.

[Talon87]

If that's the psychology, then I can relate to it; but as the "grown ups" of our community, the staff has to realize that they're sending mixed signals if they tell people to stop spamming up the more business-oriented forums and then they have a spammy thread like this in CC. I understand the psychology (as you explained it). You understand it. But not everyone who understands it will accept it; and many will never understand it in the first place. This makes for many members who will begin to not understand the staff's decisions in thread moving/closing/deleting. This lack of understanding breeds discontent. Ignorance is a very powerful danger.

In short, being a "grown up" sucks ;) , because you don't get to ever take a break from setting examples -- children watch and learn from every single thing you do.

[Edit: I do agree with your theory of the psychology at play, btw, given the replies to that thread.]

[Para]

Hmm... I guess I will clarify something.

As some members have seen, some news threads have been moved to the underground much to their chagrin.

Now the reason behind these moves are related to the fact that staff feels that General Chat and Disccusion is not a place where members can dump news threads.

Personally I do appreciate the fact that members are taking time to post interesting news on the forum to provide discussions among each other.

However when it comes to the point where some members constantly post news ... it calls for concern from moderators that they could be merely spamming or whoring themselves to news posts.

So in the end its a tough call by the staff and the decision was to move news threads that may be a bit too irrelevant.

[Starkadder]

My main problem is this. If the Moderators and Staff want to restrict certain topics, then they should tell us. If they move threads to different sub-forums then they should tell us why.

They are only making more work for themselves by remaining silent on the matter, as we are left hanging in the wind, wondering why. If they don't want certain things in certain subforums then they need to tell us that.

As it is, it sounds like serious news events and politics are not welcome in the General Discussion thread. That some moderators would rather have these in the Underground.

Personally I thought the Underground was for the seriously weird stuff, or things not generally acceptable for the main stream members here on HongFire.

I have noticed some members complain about the political dicussion threads, saying there is too much of it. It seems there are plenty of sexual or body part, relationship, comparison, and other threads out there.

If you don't want news, politics, or war threads in the General Discussion thread then tell us, instead of causing us consternation and frustration, trying to figure out what your message is.

post script:

Looking at the first page of the G&D forum; politics, war, and serious news topics combined are the minority of threads in the forum. The Amish school shootings was a serious news event on the U.S. national stage, and while some 14 year old girl getting grilled by the Secret Service may not be the greatest news event of the month, it did receive serious discussion by those posting.

What is the sense of posting on a topic, if the topic is going to be trashed. There is not much sense in spending 20 minutes to write a post or reply, that is spelled correctly and makes sense when read, if it is going to disappear because the topic reached some unknown numerical threshold. As I said, all the serious threads on G&D are the minority of threads.

[Para]

Hmm unfortunately you are right about something. Moderators should post their reasons when they move or close thread. I personally have tried to remind moderators to include reasons when closing or moving threads. I personally post a reason when doing one of those.

As for your issue about news threads in general chat and discussion, I do agree that news threads should be in general chat and discussion but you should need to see our point that when certain members spam our forums with news posts ever so constantly, it gets to the point where the moderating staff feel that some people are just spamming news posts that may be irrelevant onto the forums for pride and ego.

Unfortunately that yes we haven't been too clear on what is good in the general chat and what's bad so I will try to verify it with the staff to get a clear answer.

Though even if the news thread is in underground or general discussions, that fact should not stop members from discussing about it in an orderly fashion. However once again it does brings up the point, what is the difference between General Chat and Discussion? Post count.

Why worry? Egotists.

Definite solution? None because there is no perfect answer.

Final comment? Lower your expectations because this isn't the perfect forum with the perfect moderating staff nor are we paid to moderate and make this a perfect forum. It may be frustrating. So? Just deal with it.

[seorang]

What is the sense of posting on a topic, if the topic is going to be trashed. There is not much sense in spending 20 minutes to write a post or reply, that is spelled correctly and makes sense when read, if it is going to disappear because the topic reached some unknown numerical threshold. As I said, all the serious threads on G&D are the minority of threads.
Must be something I'm missing here....... your thread doesn't disappear. Its moved to Underground. If its still the same interesting topic that caused you to spend 20 minutes writing a post, what is the problem? Or do you consider yourself above the mob that's the Underground?

[Starkadder]

@Para
Thank you for your response. I don

[firzenex]

They do it so they appear to be doing moderator stuff.

ROFLMFAOBBQWTFLOLZ!!!!

I don't know why but that comment, busted my gut!! XD I'm dying!!!

*wipes tear* "Oh! gawd!"


Perhaps its the truth...truth is always FUNNY!..for example: DON'T you hate it when you go and take a poop, and when you're done and there ain't no toilet paper? so what cha do?...use your hand!..

lmao!!



Yeah, Dessie Closed My bar and Evicted me, on reasons of unknown...IT hadn't turn sour or cause trouble.
I want my Bar & Grill back.....*Sobs*

[Draco888]

ROFLMFAOBBQWTFLOLZ!!!!

I don't know why but that comment, busted my gut!! XD I'm dying!!!

*wipes tear* "Oh! gawd!"


Perhaps its the truth...truth is always FUNNY!..for example: DON'T you hate it when you go and take a poop, and when you're done and there ain't no toilet paper? so what cha do?...use your hand!..

lmao!!



Yeah, Dessie Closed My bar and Evicted me, on reasons of unknown...IT hadn't turn sour or cause trouble.
I want my Bar & Grill back.....*Sobs*
I support this motion Hnourable Presidency!
Firenzex Pub/dinner whatever was way more interesting and less spammy (at least its intention( then that neko cafe that survived far too long :p

[firzenex]

I support this motion Hnourable Presidency!
Firenzex Pub/dinner whatever was way more interesting and less spammy (at least its intention( then that neko cafe that survived far too long :p

Thanks for your support Draco :neko: *pats back*...I'll get it back I PROMISE!