Licensed Anime boycott ?

[DirtyFinger]

Many groups stop subbing series once they get licensed by american companies (why always american, I wonder).
And many trackers stop hosting torrents to licensed animes, even when they still get subbed by other groups.

Whats your opinion about that ?

I really wonder why movies, software and music gets distributed no matter what, but anime gets stopped.

Sure, some groups say stuff like "It's licensed in the USA, hooray ! That was our goal all along! It was our effort that made it possible! Support the american anime industry" or similar crap, while others might just fear emails from lawyers, threatening with life imprisonment in Guantanamo Bay for seeding episodes of Sailor Moon.

Personally I think: fuck-em.
I couldn't care less if some american publisher doesn't like seeing 'his' animes distributed for free. And if they choose to ruin some young people's lifes for sharing episodes that were screened on free JAPANESE television, for god's sake, then I can't help but wish them financial ruin.
And a visit by otakus armed with baseball bats.

[Astral100]

Nice topic :)
I personally think the same as you, but I would also like to add some other reasons too. My main complaint with american companies is that those f-ng bastards spoil vast majority of the anime that they put their dirty paws on. After censoring and dubbing their anime becomes a shameful parody on real anime. I am sorry for the people that have to watch ruined anime which is worse than not watching it at all. Especially notorious companies in that field are Funimation and 4kids. Anime in a sense is a sacred thing to me. And watching copmanies targeting only for profit making it into something unimaginable is unbearable for me.

[Zeta]

Nice topic... poor logic and reasoning.


My main complaint with american companies is that those f-ng bastards spoil vast majority of the anime that they put their dirty paws on. After censoring and dubbing their anime becomes a shameful parody on real anime.

Majority??? If majority means crappy shows like digimon, yugioh, zoids and kirby then you're right. Also almost evey US dvd worth owning comes with Japanese/Subs. Maybe if you've ever bought a dvd you'd know that.

Censoring??? How do you think we get mostly all of the uncensored hentai. It's because it was licensed by an American company and released over here.


Many groups stop subbing series once they get licensed by american companies (why always american, I wonder).
And many trackers stop hosting torrents to licensed animes, even when they still get subbed by other groups.

Well,hmmmm maybe because these fansub groups are based in the US so for some unknown reason they decided to follow US copyright/pirating laws. Also they are REAL anime fans, they like having quality copies of their favorite shows not some shitty quality free episodes pulled off TV.

I'm all for fansubs but I believe if you have a company that releases a better version of a show you really liked on DVD in your country that you should support them and buy that.


episodes that were screened on free JAPANESE television, for god's sake

You couldn't be farther from the truth. A number of these shows are on premium-type channels. You just can't plug your TV in and get every anime show.


And watching copmanies targeting only for profit making it into something unimaginable is unbearable for me.

Hahahaha... No japanese company (or any company for that matter) would make a product (yes, anime is a product) if they didn't think they could make money off it in some form. Anime is a business...

[Para]

Rule #1:

Do NOT post in the incorrect forum. This is one of the most frequently broken etiquettes in any forum. Please do post in the right forum! However usually not a big offence, if we do discover that you have been inadvertently posting in the incorrect forum, you will be issued a warning, or temporary ban.


This is clearly a discussion involving ANIME. THUS BELONGS IN THE ANIME DISCUSSION FORUM. *moved*

[DirtyFinger]

OH, I'M SO FUCKING SORRY !!
I THINK I'LL GO SHOOT MYSELF FOR VIOLATING YOUR COMMANDMENT!

I MEEKLY ACCEPT YOUR WARNING OR TEMPORARY BAN !!!

[eerodin]

Dirty, why are you asking for it?

[WyldFyre]

I support licensed anime, because it's a good idea. Anyway to bring it over here to America is fine to me. And, if they get a good response. Then the company brings over more. Thus increasing the popularity and spread of anime.

I like to buy licensed anime when I like it that much, so I can say I support the industry.

Also, sometimes the translations for anime and culture notes are better with professional subs than fansubs.

Now, when it comes to 4Kids, that's a different story. Someone should stop all anime from going to them, since their so good at butchering shit.

[X18999]

i dont care it its lic or now if i can stil dl it i will, if i could sub it i would.

i would support them if they licenses the anime after its finished airing in japan though but anime's they get licensed 50% through the series........ ill still try to get.

[Beatnik]

Personally I think it is silly when groups refuse to release licensed anime. Im all for supporting good anime that gets brought over here but I like to download and see what a show is like before I buy it. Also, its not like these people really do have a moral high ground because im sure these same people download mp3s, games, and movies. So this whole embargo on licensed anime is just idiotic. Lets not act like somehow the show doesnt exist anymore if it gets licensed

[ichigo100%]

itz fair enough for the fansubs n trackers to stop disturbutin when they r licensed...to stay out of trouble......
but i really fink that the americunt anime company is a bitch when they try to use fansubs as free advertizment .......like they don't licensed it until they no itz a big hit among the fansubs....it just like the drug dealers given the drugs for free the 1st few time.....get u addicted 2 it.... n make ya pay for it when ya want more........
n i m also pretty sure if they r worried about the sales of "their" product their is acutally nothing to worry about....i fink many of us will be willing to buy the orginial stuff if the make a good job...with good packaging etc....
but they can't be fu*ked to do sh*t like that.......they r greedy bastard....like all companies.....they want money for the least effort they put in.....
they probably just buy the copyrite....burn them on dvds....n rip the subtitle of the fansubs.....n try to sell it........

[Mondy]

Fansubbing has also been for the fans so that we can see things that would never have come to our countries. I also belive that its fair to let the group decide what they want to do instead saying just fansub it all because we want it. I wont deny i like it when a group continues subbing a series till the end but i dont see why people complain when they stop because its been licensed. If thats what they decide to do its their choice. Its like an age old tradition for fansubbers to stop subbing when an anime has been licensed.

Its good that anime is being licensed now days and we can go out and buy it. I mean years ago it was hard to get a good copy of anything and now we can go out and buy the dvds. As for the dubbing i agree i havent seen many animes dubbed well and will usually only get a dvd for the subtitiles.

I suppose i support the fansubbers after all as it is their choice and they are doing it for free. If you dont like it start your own group. I dont think we have the right to complain about what they do in their free time for the community.

[Astral100]

2 Zeta.

Ok, I guess I should have clarified it to you.
First, I was speaking about anime shows that get aired on american TV. I had the pleasure of watching several "crappy" shows there, made even crappier by those wonderfull US companies. And by censorship i meant censorship of the normal anime, however strange it may sound to you. In case you don't know, even titles such as Sakura and pokemon get censored.
And no, I didn't buy many anime DVDs, because i cannot afford them. As simple as that. But even if I could, I wouldn't do it, since I don't want to support american companies. Did you pay attention that most anime DVDs come in censored and uncut version? Just for that they are the bastards.
Now, if I were to live in Japan, that would be totally different story. Buying and supporting anime producers there would make a perfect sense to me.


Hahahaha... No japanese company (or any company for that matter) would make a product (yes, anime is a product) if they didn't think they could make money off it in some form. Anime is a business...
Ohhhhh, thank you, Columb. You opened America for me. As if I didn't know that. FYI, original anime producers are targeting at the both quality of their product and money. While american companies are targeting only for money. Butchering the shit out of anime in the process not caring about a thing in the world if that suits their needs.

[DirtyFinger]

Note that american companies remove anything related to inherently evil stuff like SEX from animes if they are supposed to be shown on TV. You know, kiddies shouldn't know about sex, it's for their own best, killing is no problem, though. Imagine every anime toned down to Sesame Street level. :)

[eerodin]

I've always wondered what's with the american TV policy.. Violence is a much worse thing to show to kids than sex. Oh well. What can you except from a country who elects Bush their president? :)

[Zeta]

First off I couldn't care less what is shown on American TV since it's all crap. For some reason you all seem to be basing your arguments on anime shown on American TV which only shows a small portion of what is released on DVD and dubbed to top it off.


Did you pay attention that most anime DVDs come in censored and uncut version? Just for that they are the bastards.

Most anime dvd's have censored/uncut versions??? Since when, did you base this off of the many dvd's you've bought? wait...


And no, I didn't buy many anime DVDs, because i cannot afford them.

I own many dvd's and very very few have censored the show like possibly one or two and usually at the japanese company's request.

Go check out animeondvd.com and get informed.


Now, if I were to live in Japan, that would be totally different story. Buying and supporting anime producers there would make a perfect sense to me.

Yeah, right. Since you can't even afford US dvd's there's no way you'll be able to buy japanese ones which can cost 2 to 5 times more than US alternatives. Why do you have to live in Japan to buy Japanese DVDs?? You don't seem to make very much sense do you?


FYI, original anime producers are targeting at the both quality of their product and money. While american companies are targeting only for money. Butchering the shit out of anime in the process not caring about a thing in the world if that suits their needs.


What is your point? Quality of a product helps sell it. By butchering you mean the anime on American TV which is a very limited scope. You avoid talking about dvd's which are the main form of anime release in the US, and then make up some ridiculous lie that they're mostly released in two versions censored and uncut.

note: I didn't vote for bush

[CyberHusky]

i dont care it its lic or now if i can stil dl it i will, if i could sub it i would.

i would support them if they licenses the anime after its finished airing in japan though but anime's they get licensed 50% through the series........ ill still try to get.

WTF did you just say??

[JinxJinks]

Yes, because that hurts US-anime industry !


The US companies are NOT greedy. They are trying to make a living, and fansubbing is basically altering the original, which is on the line of being illegal. The US companies negociate with the Japanese, get the translation rights, and distribute DVDs for money. If fansub groups make the anime available to the US residents even after the license, that's just wrong. Just because you fansub them doesn't mean you own them. Someone buys the anime, and you lay off of it, because you didn't. It's as easy as that.

The hate of ADV or other companies come from greed and the unwillingness to pay money for the anime. So... in conclusion, they are definitely not greedy bastards.

[DirtyFinger]

The US companies are NOT greedy.
http://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/roll.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/rotfl.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/roll.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/rotfl.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/roll.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/rotfl.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/roll.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/rotfl.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/roll.gifhttp://kik.informatik.fh-dortmund.de/visualtest/rotfl.gif
Oh god, I can't believe I'm reading that. Man, what planet are you living on ?
Planet Patriot ?

US coorporations as a rule are the very embodiment of greed, amorality and modern slavery. Haliburton ain't just a black sheep; it's just one of a black herd.
And since most companies belong to one or another coorporation this philosophy of greed (one of the blessings of the stock market) extends down to them.

Sure, non US coorps ain't very much better, but the total bodycount favors them.

[Cypher-Khan]

Oh god, I can't believe I'm reading that. Man, what planet are you living on ?
Planet Patriot ?

I suppose it wouldnt even be worth mocking your intelligence... 'cause I dont even need too - you're doing a fine job of insulting yourself anyway

He's right you know... - compleatly right.

------------

Just as a note JinxJinks - its not worth replying in threads like this. (unless its for your own amusement - in which case - go ahead)

Its not like people like this can do anything. Let them try to sue the fansubbers for stopping, let them try to sue the companies for buying he license.

Honestley these people arent worth the effort. They wont listen, they just want things for free.

[Astral100]

2 Zeta.


Most anime dvd's have censored/uncut versions??? Since when, did you base this off of the many dvd's you've bought?
I was living in America a few years ago. I went to different anime shops and guess what, most of the stuff longer than a few eps (excluding hentai of course) was in the cut/uncut version. Vision of Escaflowne, DB/DBZ, Sailor Moon, CCS and others. Not one, but many shops throughout few cities I visited in GA state.


I own many dvd's and very very few have censored the show like possibly one or two and usually at the japanese company's request.
Oh really??? At japanese company request??? Do you think THEY want their production censored? Do you think CCS, One Piece and Pokemon were censored because of the Japanese request??? Yeah right. Oh wait,

I couldn't care less what is shown on American TV since it's all crap So crap anime doesn't deserve to be taken into account by Mr. you?


I own many dvd's and very very few have censored the show like possibly one or two and usually at the japanese company's request.
Of course, because you own them. I also wouldn't want to buy cut version if I had the choise. The problem is uncut version is 10 to 20 % more expensive.
Go check out your local stores.


Since you can't even afford US dvd's there's no way you'll be able to buy japanese ones which can cost 2 to 5 times more than US alternatives. Why do you have to live in Japan to buy Japanese DVDs?? You don't seem to make very much sense do you?
Ok, let me explain obvious things to you. I am not living in America, that is why I cannot afford DVD. If I were living in America I would be able to afford them, don't you think? In my country (Latvia - ever heard of it? No.) with prices being approximately the same as America the salary is 10 times lower.
Now, if I were living in Japan (or America) I would be getting money according to the country standarts, which would made me able to buy original japanese production. DVDs included. So can you now figure out what I was saying? I hope so. I wouldn't want to believe you are a complete idiot.


What is your point? Quality of a product helps sell it.
Of course. In Japan, that is. Americans don't have much of a choise. Those wanting to get legal stuff anyway.


By butchering you mean the anime on American TV which is a very limited scope. You avoid talking about dvd's which are the main form of anime release in the US, and then make up some ridiculous lie that they're mostly released in two versions censored and uncut
Not only TV anime. DVD anime as well. As I stated earlier there are DVDs with dubbing only, or cut/censored. This is your fault for not seeing them, not my lie. Although yes, I went a bit overboard saying that there is a vast majority of them. Not the majority, but plenty to note. Which still is enough for me to start associating american anime licensing companies with desecration of sacred anime. Death to desecrators. My opinion.

[Paizu]

You couldn't be farther from the truth. A number of these shows are on premium-type channels. You just can't plug your TV in and get every anime show.

That's not right. Most of the raw provider use sat device to receive japanese channels if they are living elsewhere than japan. Accourding to the lastest sat tv information channels like BS-i, Asahi, etc... are Free-To-Air which means it's free.
source: http://www.satcodx4.com/1100/deu/
They are even in High-Defintion!

My sat tv pci card supports HDTV but I'm living in the ass of the world somewhere in europe. So I can't receive the satelitte BSAT :mad:

licensed or not, if you're living somewhere in the ass of the world like me, you would understand it. Here you can't buy licensend anime. Most of them are even forbidden!

[eerodin]

Ass of the world, lol.... I'd guess where that is, but since I'd end up insulting someone, I won't.

[1got2much3time]

If you don't support the big evil corperations then don't, but how does that justify you getting all this cool stuff for free in the first place?

Be glad we got (away with) so much already and stop acting like a spoiled brat.

If you somehow cannot afford anime from the big evil corperations, well tough luck. Again, be glad you got anything at all for the money ($0) you spent on anime.

[DirtyFinger]

well, thats a pragmatic view. I like it. :)

Of course, from the coorporations point of view we are all criminals anyway.
In their thinking we shouldn't even be allowed to tape songs from radio shows and trade them. Thats how we did it back not so long ago, eh ?
And despite that, I bought so many originals. And then again when CDs came out to replace the records...

[rabbit]

i think it should stop being subbed unless the us distributor isn't doint justice to the anime, then it is unfair for the people who wanted it licensed. all in all all of us are doing something illegal because anime in japan is copyrighted and due to international laws it is illegal to distribute it even for free without permission from the copyright holder, whether its a US distributor or the japanese creator and production staff. by the way not all japanese t.v. is free, some anime is aired on cable and satellite, while others are shown in a pay-per-view basis, and even if it was shown on regular free t.v. there is still money to be made through advertisements. the more people watch the show, the more advertisers are interested in investing. all in all it is illegal and we are doing something illegal unless the fansubbers get official permission from the copyright holders it will stay illegal. oh and it is the rightful choice of the copyright holder to ask that the illegal distribution is ceased cuz it causes them to lose mony they worked for. people tend to forget the original purpose of fansubbing. it was started to spread anime (which is an art form that people worked to create) and to help get it licensed in the U.S., not to steal people's intellectual property. if people disagree with this they are fools as it is common logic.

[Aricin]

I've always wondered what's with the american TV policy.. Violence is a much worse thing to show to kids than sex. Oh well. What can you except from a country who elects Bush their president? :)

The problem is that (unsurprisingly) violence and sex aren't the same. It is much easier for a young child's mind to understand violence and why it is wrong, than to understand the long-term emotional, physical, financial and moral considerations and consequences of sex.

STDs, children (raising, giving up for adoption, abortion; finances, how will they manage school or work, etc., it goes on and on), emotional pain and suffering. Even with adults, it isn't uncommon for them not to realize just what they are getting in to.

On the other hand even a young child can understand that being punched, for example, hurts. It doesn't require a particularly advanced understanding of the world, human nature, or responsibility.

[DirtyFinger]

The problem is, no child can understand the consequenses of shooting or killing someone solely by watching american TV.

Remember, the guys doing most of the shooting are the good guys. And they are cool. And in the case of the A-Team no one gets ever hurt.

And then theres this cheap gun at walmart, let's play police.

[Aricin]

The problem is, no child can understand the consequenses of shooting or killing someone solely by watching american TV.

Remember, the guys doing most of the shooting are the good guys. And they are cool. And in the case of the A-Team no one gets ever hurt.

And then theres this cheap gun at walmart, let's play police.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I sincerely doubt that any child believes that being shot is painless and harmless, regardless of who is doing the shooting and who is getting shot.



I would wager if you were to take the average 8 year old, and ask them if shooting was harmful and why, they would say that it was, because it hurts the person being shot. That's a vast oversimplification, but it works for the purpose of them not shooting people.

On the other hand, if you asked a child if sex was harmful, and why; I doubt most could begin to explain to you even the simplest of consequences that can come with it.

Every child attains a physical injury at one point or another. It allows them a level of sympathy and understanding about causing injury to others.

But few children could really hope to grasp the potential consequences of sex, it is beyond anything they have ever experienced, and even beyond something they could hope to comprehend.

That's just my opinion though.

[iht]

I found it funny to read through most of the posts in this topic. To be honest, I find being able to download anime off the net, a privilege. When you download anime your not paying anything for that episode. Your not paying the fansubbers for the amount of time spent on translating, text editing, encoding, ETC, ETC. Anime getting licensed is a good thing since it provides the company (which is producing the anime series) more money to do more anime series. airing on TV also gets money to that company since the TV stations need to license the right to air that anime series. Even though I hate dubbed anime series. I found a few that were not all to bad in english, if not better.
US box sets can also be better then japanese ones.
Kiddy Grade japanese dvds? about 12 DVDs each one costing 5800yen (appox $58 US) while in the US it's only 8 dvds at appox $20 CAD which is about $16 US.

Think i'll stop now since posting here would be a waste of time. :p

[starcaptor]

Im prob gonna get ripped apart no matter how I reply to this one =P

Basically, Ill be honest. Ill pay minimum possible (usually nothing) for anime, as I fall into that college student category. However, I do acknowledge that anime is a privilege to get (as it is a privilege to download from awesome fansubbers who do this for us for free =). If we all freely admitted it, i bet a vast majority of us, before we go to bed, acknowledge that we would rather get it for free, and do so.

I cant in good conscience say just screw the licensors, though, cause if you think about it, if you had paid good money on a feasible business venture, only to have it ripped out from under ur feet, and have no legal recourse available to take other then threats, other than to just simply withdraw, that would totally suck.

However, I despise the stance alot of commercial companies take, such as Bandai, the way they licensed Gundam Seed 6 episodes before it was done. At this point, they only did it out of sheer spite it seemed IMO.

At the end, it comes down to how niche vs mainstream we want anime to become. Both have pros and cons, but Ill tell you from the perspective of at least conventions, that mainstreamization is BAD, because it ignores the concerns and thoughts of the limited (for the most part) base of fans which whole the entire industry up. You canot equate anime with say, Hollywood...at least for the time being.

Some awesome series, I would not waste ONE SECOND on running out and paying cash for, simply because they are so good, I will pay to have that studio release more, and for that licensor to release more DVDs, with nice menus and best video quality.

Still waiting for them to license KGNE, for example. I will buy that in a nanosecond. Same with Kanon. And similar with the games. Preordered Hourglass of Summer when I was at AX, no second thoughts about it at all. :cool:

[rabbit]

i think what i posted earlier summed about everything worth saying about the issue, although i would have to disagree with starcaptor, as bandai will license a show when negotiations are done, which takes a time that always varies. they r not so childish as to license a show at a specific time to spite some fans dl it illegaly lol

[starcaptor]

I guess i was naiieve about the licensing thing, now that I recall, a panel at AX did say negotiations usually happen before a show is even aired. But hypothetically, doesnt that mean that the fansub community as a guage of a shows popularity, is not being used by the industry at all here in the US?

If that is the case, how some they seem to license only the big titles which garner popularity on fansub scene? hmmmm...... :confused:

[DirtyFinger]

Seems like the forum is split nearly equally in the middle about the issue.
About half the votes agree that fansubbing and distribution of fansubbed animes should stop the moment it get's licensed by american companies.

This practice is - of course - understandable from the companies point of view. After all they want to earn their living and it's not like they don't have expanses.

But to me the situation smells like a similar issue of the past: Radio
Before there were CD's you either bought a record or a tape of the music you wanted.
Without MTV the only other possibility to hear music was Radio. And then came the evil music pirates who dared to copy the music from the radio WITHOUT PAYING THE MUSIC COORPORATIONS !!
I don't know how other countries handled this outrage, but in Germany the blank tapes were taxed and the music industry got their due out of this tax so it would shut up and stop criminalizing half the country. And besides, the tape recording was clearly inferior to the originals and far less cool.

So, in that time, would you have stopped listening to the beatles because BMG asked you to? Or would you have kept on listening and bought them if you thought they were worth it ?

[rabbit]

with music i wouldn't have cared, but with anime i would have done what's right. i may not be of much help to the industry, but one person still makes a difference no matter how small of a difference it is. my reason is that i want more anime licensed. i don't care whether more people are introduced to anime, cuz they will never have known it the way i have. what i do care about is whether or not the animes that i want licensed get licensed. when i watch anime it reminds me of my childhood days when i used to watch anime ammazed. i knew it was different than other cartoons like disney cartoons or scooby doo. the more money the anime industry gets the more they can invest into licensing deals, and the better the chance of older vintage anime classics getting licensed. not many people care for old anime, most anime fans these days just watch whatever is hip or new. i know i am generalising, but it is a true generalisation. there are only a few people that have watched anime for more than 15 years (for those of u who don't know most people lie about how long they have been watching anime so they don't seem like noobs) and for those who have been watching for that long, it is our dream that the shows we grew up with get licensed, so we can relive those childhood days.


i'm not preaching or anything, just giving people some insight about how some people feel.

[Anarchy]

Whining bout licensed Anime is pathetic ... it the series is fanous enough it'll defineately be subben no matter if licensed -> See FMA, Elfen Lied and Kurau ...

Somethin to read :

http://www.anime-source.com/banzai/modules.php?name=News&file=article&thold=-1&mode=flat&order=1&sid=840#488

Anime DVDs are unbelieably expensive in Japan

[rabbit]

nobody is whining. we r just having a debate. also we r not talking about whether anime will getted subbed if licensed. we r looking at the pros and cons of doing so. u should really read the thread before giving silly remarks.

[Riven]

Personally I think: ****-em.
I couldn't care less if some american publisher doesn't like seeing 'his' animes distributed for free. And if they choose to ruin some young people's lifes for sharing episodes that were screened on free JAPANESE television, for god's sake, then I can't help but wish them financial ruin.
And a visit by otakus armed with baseball bats.

I think you put that SO well and I really agree with you on it. Like for Fullmetal Alchemist, I'm sorry but who the hell wants to wait an extra year+ to catch up on the series, either via a dub on television or paying 30 dollars per dvd (and FMA is 52 eps, so we know collecting it will cost a lot.. granted I will STILL buy it.. but that isn't the point!)?

Everyone should have the option of screening an anime before they buy it, and that means we should be able to view it both subbed AND dubbed. (A bad dub can ruin a great anime..) I've bought a lot of anime without watching it first and really regretted it later on. It's not like you can ever get what you pay for DVDs once you've watched them. ~_~

I'm all for anime being licensed, but as you said, the Japanese get to view almost all of their anime for free before buying it, and so should we. (Only a tiny bit of the anime that is licensed is shown on TV here after all, and it's ALWAYS dubbed..)

[Aku]

[QUOTE=Riven]...and FMA is 52 eps... [QUOTE]
is 51 eps only
fma is going to end next week :(

[rabbit]

I think you put that SO well and I really agree with you on it. Like for Fullmetal Alchemist, I'm sorry but who the hell wants to wait an extra year+ to catch up on the series, either via a dub on television or paying 30 dollars per dvd (and FMA is 52 eps, so we know collecting it will cost a lot.. granted I will STILL buy it.. but that isn't the point!)?

Everyone should have the option of screening an anime before they buy it, and that means we should be able to view it both subbed AND dubbed. (A bad dub can ruin a great anime..) I've bought a lot of anime without watching it first and really regretted it later on. It's not like you can ever get what you pay for DVDs once you've watched them. ~_~

I'm all for anime being licensed, but as you said, the Japanese get to view almost all of their anime for free before buying it, and so should we. (Only a tiny bit of the anime that is licensed is shown on TV here after all, and it's ALWAYS dubbed..)

u can watch it subbed....on dvd lol :) just think of it this way, when u were watching fma, a mainstream money-making show, u had to have known that it would have eventually been licensed right? so basically u kept on watching the show like many others (and myself) on ur own risks that either the subs were goint to be harder to get, or that they would simply stop. u get my point?

[AnimeJanai]

To give you perspective about the USA anime market, as reported in Japanese business press, the marketplace for anime in the USA market in the Year 2002 was over FOUR BILLION US Dollars. So, there is evidently a lot of purchasing of anime going on in the USA. So, those who say the market is still small may change their opinions because it is certainly sizable enough for a lot of profit.

As for the earlier comments about the USA companies editing or censoring their releases for the American market, you can visit some websites that track such changes or which anime DVD have bugs (and product recalls only if you know about it). See:

No Editing Zone: http://www.animeprime.com/

Anime DVD Bug Listing: http://demaagd.com/anime/dvdbugs/

Anime Glitched Disc discussion forum: http://forums.animeondvd.com/postlist.php?Cat=5&Board=glitchdisc&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=

Note that AnimeonDVD.com forums are full of anti-pirates, support the companys' anti-sharing positions, and some company reps even post or answer questions there from time to time. Remember, don't share anime; everyone must buy their own copy - sharing is bad like communism.

[Arleonenis]

it would be good if i could get my hands on licensed anime but in my country anime market almost dont exist so free fansubs are only option

btw if i want buy anime in us sending cost and custom price it would be such cash amount that i would need to rob a bank ;)

some time ago few distributers started publishing some good mangas and i collect them but unfortunetly no anime :( :(

[Nephillim]

As for me, I'll be willing to stop downloading licensed if anime was imported here in the 1st place. Good, nice DVD quality, not crappy VCDs with mono sound (unless you don't mind 1 speaker blaring Japanese, and the other, Chinese) . They make it difficult to import with regional restrictions (no, regional coding's the lesser of these headaches) and import red-tape. Even then, shipping them here from the States can easily go up to 50% of the cost of buying the thing (You pay 150%. Nice? Yet people complain about the cost of buying in their own country. Ungrateful bastards! <just kidding!>) So its a choice between bootlegs and underground fansubs for me. Easy to see which I'll pick.

[1got2much3time]

Two comments:

1) I understand how people living in countries that can't easily buy legit anime feel, but to be harsh... that's life for ya. The Internet is the wonderful world where there is no need for national boundaries (for now...), but we can't forget that we (well most of us anyway :P) live in the real world where travel distance and national borders exist. It's like if you want a foreign car, it'll cost more than a domestic one. It sucks but it's life.

2) About comparing internet d/l's to radio recording... yes there is some similarity, but there is a glaring difference in that the radio stations were ALLOWED to play the songs. The subbers/releasers to anime (or whatever else you d/l) never got said permission. Recording songs off radio is more like d/ling shareware or demo (not freeware!), which of course is different from d/ling the real deal.

[Shinigami Grahf]

I don't think people who live in the US should have to live by US copyright or US distribution laws. If a cuban or something wants to pirate Azumanga Daioh, more power to 'em.

[knets]

I don't see why giving out your opinion could cause such chaos in this thread... Maybe flaming is allowed in here? I wonder... *im new*

As for me, I'd think that downloading anime from fansubs for free is a privilege... althought I'd have to say that the american companies just make our lives harder in such and such ways...

I live in Canada, and... personally I've yet to see any anime DVD on sale anywhere, except for the home made ones and/or chinese subtitle ones in chinatown... Apart from chinatown... never seen.

Already searching the web for an anime is a pain in the neck, long as you don't have a list of sites where you can search from. And once you find it, you have to get it from either BitTorrent or mIRC. BT is great, except that not everyone has DSL. I personally use cable internet -but- I have a 20GB of download limit and a 10GB of upload limit. So basically, BT would be troublesome... can't really seed or anything. And as for mIRC, we all hate the super long queues, right? So basically you have to wait for a long time till you get your anime downloaded.

I think that the US is already properous enough. Leaving out anime industries wouldnt hurt their finance so much. I've always thought that most americans were greedy and all, even thought I know alot of them just want to have a everyday meal to eat. I guess we can't base the minority of super rich people to the majority of others. Alot of people cannot afford to buy anime DVDs since we all know... anime is addicting =p and we aren't all spoiled people living in mansions. We need to work to earn money to buy stuff, and if you really have financial problems and you want animes, what will you chose? Anime or Food? Food!

But alright, end of rubbish weird talk that leads nowhere. It does make sense saying fansubbing animes is breaking the law already. And then when they are licsenced, it would be even more of law breaking. But why stop distrubutions? I mean, since as we can see from the poll, half the amount of people would actually buy anime DVDs from companies. Besides, what actually gives the right of the american companies of saying it is their property? It was never their creation, I think they are just doing the same thing as fansubbing (for the companies that work on non-dubbed animes with subtitles and burnt on DVD) but charging money. Anyone can go to japan and buy anime DVDs and then come back, subscribe some bullcrap company form to the government, add subtitles, burn them and sell them on the market. Really, as long as you have someone who can translate japanese. It wouldn't take much more time then the fansubs to do their work.

Wasn't volountary (how to say it...) work something good? People like it because it was free of charge, no? I bet those anime company owners would rather get their animes for free instead of buying it, if they weren't the ones owning it. They should worry about their own products, not other's.


Anyhow, the american companies should worry about american movies not being distributed online instead of anime, and the fansubs should all move to Canada! =p Hopefully the pesty greedy company owners won't cross the borders to settle matters for anime. They'd be pretty low, lame, stupid, desperate, brainless if they did. Too much greed is not good for your health.


... and finally ends my pointless reply...

[blue_otaku_sp]

Well the main goal of some fansubs is that it get licensed in the USA so they stop subbing those, besides most of the Big Corp. in USA also have legal "power" in some parts of Europe, that

[Ponzu]

It's not a problem for me because I can usually find licenced anime that I what to see. And I'm Japanese so I don't really care about the subs, I can see it RAW.

[Psygoli]

This is a question that never seems to die and almost every anime forum has it's own thread for it.Well to share my opinion here,Anime is pretty expensive,but I try to support companies somehow,most of my money goes for manga but sometimes I buy anime dvd's.

[moeru]

I won't even bother going into a rant on a starter post that ignorant. Cries like that are of the uninformed or cheap. I'll just say this: Anime is a hobby. An expensive one. Can't afford it? Get out.

[icie]

I've just skimmed through this thread quickly and boy the topic has been long and very diverse. Perhaps some of you know that I used to delete released anime off the tracker (long time ago). Here is a basic outline of my personal policy:

- Download anime, unlicensed or license. Try to complete the series.
- If I watch the anime and I like it (and I think it has good rewatch value), I keep my fansubs and wait.
- When the DVD's come out locally, I delete my fansubs because DVD's are soooo much better. :P
- If I enjoyed the anime but thought I wouldn't want to watch it again that much, I archive my fansubs (because I am a perfectionist collector) and leave the CDs/DVD-R's to gather dust.

Downloading DVD-rips of R1/R3/R4 anime is perhaps one of the things I will try to avoid, because it tempts you to just keep the DVD-rips and not bother getting the DVD.

The situation is complicated because I am in Australia, and we get anime releases after the US DVDs are released. Sometimes I get R1 DVD's, which are more expensive, but I think are worth it if I like the anime.

One of my key reasonings in regards to downloading licensed anime is that a company stating they have licensed something, have not done anything concrete for the fans. Usually after licensing they can take quite a long period ranging from a few months to a few years to release the DVDs locally. And when the DVDs are released they come in monthly/bi-monthly intervals. This is frustrating to say the least.

For example, I might think that the beginning 12 or so eps of Tenjou Tenge was good, but I am not going to wait 3 years for the DVD's to come out, only to find that the ending sucks.

Another recent example about why one might retain the fansubs rather than buy the DVD is when the big DVD-release companies screw their fans over with inferior releases. I bought the R1 Castle in the Sky DVD (released by Disney) recently, and frankly, they screwed up. The quality is crap -- I can see compression artefacts. The video borders are not clean. Their subtitles are not in time and not accurate enough. If they are going to do this sort of thing, in the future I would avoid DVD's from this company and keep my fansubs with their more accurate translations and similar quality.

So basically, unless the DVD's are available in my local region, I will download the anime. I sometimes download anime which have already been released in R1, since it is not economically viable for me to keep getting R1's for around double the price of locally released DVDs.

I think the case with most of us is to download the HD-TV fansubs as they come out and watch the anime. In that case, I feel there is no rational reason other than greed/poverty/cheapness to re-download the series in DVD-rip form if they are available locally. If you judge the anime to be worthy of watching again, and it is available in your local stores, buy the thing.

[Babel]

*looks up at previous thread* Well, you just saved me a lot of typing... thanks!

[1got2much3time]

Well to be pure evil... is it fully the big companies' fault for making crappier subs? If nobody buys them, they wouldn't have business and they'd either stop licensing or increase their quality.

It's the same principal as people saying "mainstream" music sucks yet it's the mainstream music that makes the money...

SOMEBODY, or rather, MANY body are buying it.

I'm sure everyone in their minds have something "mainstream" that they think is just the most ridiculous thing in the world, yet there are people that lap it up.

[Mad-B_Man]

I don't really mind if fansubs still get distributed, but R1 DVD-rips are just worng.
If you hate the damn studios, then don't watch thier DVDs then.

Fansubing just doesn't work in some countries actually, Thailand is one of them. there are so many pirating going on, even Fansubs gets pirated. English fansub pirate is very wide spread and no one can actually do any thing about it, but thai-fansub gruops can drop a project. Only then people will go smack the pirates in the head and come back begging for the gruop to continue (only happened once though). The reason for piracy is sucky net connection in Thailand. (kindda off topic,sorry)

[z2ei]

First off: If you're in a country where you absolutely can't get anime legally for some reason, this may not apply to you.

The problem with fansubs is that, even once it's licensed, some cheap-ass would rather download than buy the DVD's. They're also usually lower quality than a DVD is, a lot of times, drastically. Lately, we've been getting the R2-only "enhanced" versions of some shows. Most of the time, you won't find that on a fansub.

A second problem with fansubs is that some stuff is just way too overexposed. Chrno Crusade had quite a few groups doing it. Naruto (shudder) has at LEAST eight, and Gundam Seed Destiny (even though I like it..) has at least seven, and the second episode just came out in Japan! R1 DVD is about the only chance for some shows - particularly shows that aren't mainstream - to be seen at all.

I'd kill of most of the old Super Robot (Getter, Mazinger, etc) shows got picked up here. Why? It's pretty much the only chance I have of seeing those subbed, and with decent video quality. I've never even seen an HK set of Getter Robo G, much less Grendizer, or more obscure stuff like Raideen. Fansubbed? Good luck.

I have downloaded series after they were licensed, particularly Gundam Seed and Fullmetal Alchemist, but both of those were good enough to warrant my purchase the second it hits store shelves. I only use fansubs as a means of seeing a series that will never reach daylight, or to see a series in it's entirety. They aren't a replacement for a legitimate copy.

Look at the upcoming Zeta Gundam boxset? I'm getting it for less than 14 dollars a disc, which isn't expensive at all, considering it's a 50 episode series. Look at Aura Battler Dunbine, which wouldn't have been subbed in this era - it's not "popular" enough.

Besides, no matter what some may think, very few DVD's are edited and dub only now. Normally, it's only a company like 4kids, which isn't an anime company to begin with. If you don't like dubs, that's why there's a subtitle track. If more people were actually informed instead of slinging excuses, (Don't like dubs, or it's edited, or R1 companies suck..) , this thread wouldn't be so bad.

[SonicTMP]

I stand gray on the issue. While some releases are very good and worth owning they are slow to come out indeed. Not to mention rarely is there a universal method for how much is put on a DVD. Some have 5 episodes... some 4 others 3.... some as low as 2 for a TV series... then you get movies or one shot OAV's that still cost as much as that DVD with 4-5 episodes on it. And while while you can always flip off the dub if you don't like it. Your still forced to pay for it in the bundle.

Then on the other hand the tradition has been for fansubbers to drop the seires once it has been licenced. But then you get instances like Gundam SEED where it gets licenced a few episodes before its done actually airing in japan and then we have to wait another year at the least (the've been pretty fast with the dub and release of SEED in the US) before getting to see what you were unable to.

Personaly I think if a group starts the subbing they need to finish it all the way. Quiting a job you've started halfway or near the end isn't right. Besides even after an anime is licenced how long does it take to be distrubted over in the US and other countries? A fansub group has plenty of time to finish a series halfway done and still have some months before the US starts the release of the start of the series. They gota dub it of course and do their translation and then the marketing has them release it ever so slowly.

[1got2much3time]

It's understandable for people to have different tastes in music, but I think we all appreciate it when the shows we watch have people who know how to properly put emphasis and tones into their speech pattern.

Now I don't want to seem mean, but when (for example) in Brain Powered, some woman yells out something that's supposed to be a question and puts the emphasis on the wrong word in the sentence, I seriously have to question exactly HOW DUMB ARE these people?! Are they grade school drop outs or something?! And what of the people there doing the recording? It's not like it would cost them a fortune to redo the scene. The best way I can put it: They're SPEAKING English, but it sure as hell doesn't sound like normal American English (their target audience).

Edit: Analogy doesn't make sense to me anymore, lol.

Yea your analogy doesn't make sense to me either lol

I can say "mainstream" music lack quality not just because of difference in taste, but their lack of "artistic" merit: basic song structure (AABA), basic familiar meter, a bunch of "ooo" "yea" and "baby" lyrics, most of them using same old themes (love, money/materialism, girls, and more love)...

But I'm more referring to stuff like crappy MTV, reality tv, and cheesy infomercials: so many say it's crap, but why do they still make it? Because somewhere out there, somebody likes it, and/or is too dumb to want something better.

[Osaka]

seen WAY too many of these discussions, but from everything I've heard, some people will download it and some won't. Others will buy every DVD, some won't dare pay a dime.

Anyway my dream would be an anime channel that showed anime with subs, and of course commercials and all would pay for it. It could be cable if needed altho more likely than not. (not talking about that stupid Anime Network channel as it's all dubbed I think, maybe if they had dubs during the day for older series or something and subs at night for the newer series that may even be airing still in Japan just like fansubs do. And Japanese companies like Bandai can market their stuff in English with commercials to sell so they're happy as well. That is the only way to enjoy anime even remotely close to how japanese do. Oh and the hiring of the subbers, well kill all the middle men, the Japanese studios themselves should hire the subbers/dubbers, no need for any American distributers/dubbers like Funimation, etc. to profit a single cent off of the actual animation company's work.

Ok what if the only sub you get sucks? First and foremost, these are pro subbers, so they know Japanese and would work with the director. Well, hmm darn if the technology was there, maybe there could be switchable subs or something you download from them and you can choose the best one you like. There will be a pool of subbers and people can vote the ones that suck out (well maybe not fire them but tell them to do it over, better, etc.) Any other person can submit a sub also, and if they're good they'll be hired and paid! Democracy! (or too many reality shows?)

Anyways just my two cents. It's not perfect, is idealogic and surely is flawed but I think it makes some sense. The main idea is the channel and eliminating American distributers (dub companys) except for the channel provider itself. Let Japanese companies directly and rightfully profit with commercials and other deals. Let people have a choice with subs and make thier own so not a single sub is shoved down everyone's throat in the spirit of fansubs. This will eliminate fan sub groups btw but then they won't be needed anymore except for the rare shows not many people will watch so isn't brought over. I better stop I'm sounding like a presidential candidate stating a platform lol.

In a perfect world... Until then, there's Hongfire.

[lzx]

ichigo does have some very good points

[rejectshia]

actually, i'd wish that americans would just sell raw anime and force all americans to learn japanese. oh yeah let's keep dreaming.

but actually if anyone is going to complain about badly translated anime or dubbing or anything you must first understand that Japanese and English are two entirely different languages. Everything from the writing to the grammar structure is drastically different (e.g. the order of an English sentence connotes a certain meaning to what you mean whereas in Japanese you can place your phrases in any order and they still mean the same thing)... and add that to the fact that English words can be transliterated in Japanese but many Japanese words simply lose its meaning when translated in English. Perfect example: kami [神]. all you Anglophiles would call it God, but in Japanese 'kami' doesn't really mean god, its real meaning is closer to 'spirit' than to god. the traditional shinto religions have no god, it's all a huge bunch of localised spirits who watch over the place they hang around in... ... and let's not forget all the puns. Punning is so common in anime that かみ = 神(god/spirit) = 紙(paper) = 髪(hair)... and that's just three out of the 11 that IME is showing me....

so my point is, translating japanese to english is a real shit. subbers have to have pre-show slides to explain all the puns and words and stuff and this takes all the funny out of any anime. i doubt america has all the translators it needs to produce quality licensed anime... not counting fansubbers. from the american licensed stuff that i've watched so far, as well as looking at how people get employed there, i get a feeling that the *cough cough* translators *cough cough AAAaaarrgghh pwat (dies of syphillis)* hired by your neighbourhood friendly distributors know as much japanese as i know um say tagalog... hmm. the only tagalog i know is from this traditional fishing song.... but anyway i digress. i have a feeling those translators can't even pass JLPT at level 3... maybe they just use a dictionary and a sixteen sided dice.

in any case, if you really liked a certain anime, you would feel the otaku spirit burning in you and you'd buy the real, raw, made-in-japan unsubbed, undubbed dvd and then buy up all the fan goods you can find, figurines, standees, cups, mugs, stickers, postcards, posters, games, desktop accessories blah blah whatever.

i mean, if you really don't like the way american companies make inferior subbed and dubbed versions of your favourite anime or you just don't like them making money out of poor students like ourselves then

1) learn japanese then
2) build your own satellite dish to hijack japanese channels into your tv or
3) download raws or
4) don't learn japanese and
5) run up and down the information superhighway downloading fansubs or
6) run for president and then use your frightening american constitution powers to make those distributors do some real work.

yay. what a load of crap from me... well just another 2 cents worth of stuff.

[Taltos]

i get a feeling that the *cough cough* translators *cough cough AAAaaarrgghh pwat (dies of syphillis)* hired by your neighbourhood friendly distributors know as much japanese as i know um say tagalog... hmm. the only tagalog i know is from this traditional fishing song.... but anyway i digress. i have a feeling those translators can't even pass JLPT at level 3... maybe they just use a dictionary and a sixteen sided dice.

actually you'd be surprised, most professional translators in the US are quite good, the problem usually occurs during localization and editing for content/lip flaps/etc.

[rejectshia]

localization? what do you mean? as in poor voice actors or something?

[kasamune]

I highly suspect that some companies don't even translate the animes by themselves and actually take the subs off of fansubbed copies with a bit of editing here and there.

[DrWise]

You know Americans (the so-called real ones, that means immigrants excluded) are not skilled at foreign languages, or it is more like they don't want to learn another one.
Because they are just so "proud" about their most spoken language in the world. But really, they think USA is the world : some schoolkids can't even locate "Paris" in the world map !!! :eek:

[Chaotic Heavens]

Ooooh... the generalization hurts. It hurts so much. I'm a filipino born from America, and I consider myself as a "real" American. Yes, some of you may think I'm some retarded idiot for thinking that, and I really have nothing to say to that since you're the one being racist.

However, not all Americans are unwilling to learn a second language or even a third. Most high schools in America demand that you learn a second language as part of the curriculum. I, myself, am learning Spanish and Latin and a little of French. Just because my heritage is from the Philippines doesn't mean I'm not an American since I was born and raised here. So please, don't make such stereo-types. It really does hurt.

[DbzDP]

Licensing needs to be done because.
They make the Anime, they show it on Japanese TV, the makers of the Anime get money, then the makers sell the rights to the Anime to a Dubbing Company sych as FUNimation, which dubs it and sells it on DVD or sells the rights of the dubs to a TV Station such as Cartoon network.
The TV Statios make money from, the adverstingment shown and Sponsership.

[_venom]

i voted to **** em, 'cause i hate how hypocrite america is (the largest producer of actionmovies and porn in the world doesnt like (drawn, as in not real)woman with big breasts and (drawn, as in not real) blood, the dubs almost always suck (american voice-actors like to get paid alot, and fast, japanese ones like to play a certain character), and almost all anime gets altered so it's more american (yes, you imagine what would happen if american children would see parts of foreign cultures, that would spoil they beautiful america-is-the-only-true-country-and-the-rest-of-the-world-can-die-like-minds, and make them more intelligent)

and if i want a quality version instead of a fansub, i'd buy a dvd from japan, those cost more, and the subs might not be the very best, but at least i'll get an un-edited version

[ChibiFirli]

The best way to solve the problem of bad subs is probably just to learn japanese. This might be difficult for some people though, not everyone is good at languages. So subs are still really usefull.
And as for the more 'discussed' problem of downloading licenced anime. Personnaly, i would find it wonderful if everything was for free for everyone. There's only a small problem with that, because most people don't work for free (so there won't be a lot of anime series created that way). So money has to be made from making and/or subbing anime.
And after having added absolutely nothing new to this thread I am going to propose a possible solution (that may not be realistic, seen my poor marketing skills): If someone would just buy the license for an anime-series, and then share it with the rest of the internet and make money from advertising (by adding ads to their site, and maybe even in their download/share program, ...). That would solve the problem if this idea is do-able. And that way, everyone can enjoy anime for free. So it's not reserved for those who have enough money or for illegal downloaders.

[Chaotic Heavens]

i voted to **** em, 'cause i hate how hypocrite america is (the largest producer of actionmovies and porn in the world doesnt like (drawn, as in not real)woman with big breasts and (drawn, as in not real) blood, the dubs almost always suck (american voice-actors like to get paid alot, and fast, japanese ones like to play a certain character), and almost all anime gets altered so it's more american (yes, you imagine what would happen if american children would see parts of foreign cultures, that would spoil they beautiful america-is-the-only-true-country-and-the-rest-of-the-world-can-die-like-minds, and make them more intelligent)


Of course. Cause some jokes that involve the mispronunciation of words in Japanese will always make sense when they translate it into English or any other language. Oh wait... no, I don't think so.

Altering anime? I'm guessing big breasts and plenty of blood are quite part of foreign cultures. It's not like Americans have as much blood spurting out of them when they get injured. Hmm... you're right. We do take out too much foreign things like those. Please forgive the American industry and trying to censor things from children. We're too immature. Big breasts and lots of blood are part of nature.

And about the biggest industry in porn and such. I'm sorry, but I think we try to prevent children from watching porn or violent movies. I believe the last time I went into a Software Etc. (gaming store) and tried to get Counter-Strike for the PC, I couldn't because I was too young. And then there was also this time when I wanted to buy Dead Or Alive 3, but I couldn't. Also, many a times, I haven't been able to enter R-rated movies without an adult ( but maybe that's cause I look like a kid since I can manage to enter with a kid's ticket ^^;; ). I guess America is just trying to hard to secure the kids. And yes, this may not apply to all stores in America since I bet very few actually do what my local Software Etc. does, but at least we try to prevent the support in violence and porn.

But the biggest thing that bothered me was this statement:

(american voice-actors like to get paid alot, and fast, japanese ones like to play a certain character)
I'm assuming that you are quite well-knowledgable about American voice actors. Heck! You're probably friends with all of them since you know that they just care about only getting paid a lot and fast. Yea... I guess watching the Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete CD on how they made the game proved that they didn't care. It's not like they spent countless hours trying to perfect the voice dubbing or try to get into the mood of the character. Darn... biggest waste of time in my life.

[Mobius]

i do not have a problem w/ licensed anime

my problem is that once an AMERICAN compay licenses an anime it screws out other viewers (not U.S.) from watching it.

granted, some fansubbers are american, but i doubt the whole crew is (from what i know)

this type of behavior by fansubers merely reinforces the notion of American dominace in everyday lives. although we are specifically discussiong anime, this also applies to other aspects of the world as well.

why should non-US fansubbers adhere to regulations in the US. not one reason comes in my mind!


btw: b4 the flames start i live in the U.S. and it sickens me that the actions of the few
(elite) always affect the lives of the many (including the rest of the world).

[SkIzZoL]

I don't think people who live in the US should have to live by US copyright or US distribution laws. If a cuban or something wants to pirate Azumanga Daioh, more power to 'em.

lol funny cuz I'm cuban but thats got nothing to do with anime.

Well in my oppinion Company's don't give a flying f**k about what the ppl think they just wanna feed kids GARBAGE, sell the expensive CRAP!, to get a damn anime series from US companies is INSANE, I went to FYE and saw the Neon Genesis Evangelion box set, GUESS for how much? $180 YOU KNOW what a $180 can do for me!? I can get a damn dvd burner a 100 spindle pack of dvd-rs and I can get like 3 100 spindles of cdrs, OR I can get a the HK version of the anime for like 1/3 of the price, and keep the rest of the cas for myself. and now a days HKs are starting to EVEN rip US DVDs (R1) which now makes their cualities better by like 100x.

As for Licensing, its gay, they wanna ELIMINATE all compitition ESPECIALLY THE ONE who is giving away what THEY claim now THEIR PRODUCT.

They hire random ppl from the street with absolutely NO TALENT and feeling and say "hey wanna get paid loads of money to do a shitty voice for a super Famous anime that everyone loves?" and also even SOME of the companies take THE SAME Dub and make subs out of them, and place them as subs you know how stupid that is? might as well hear the damn dub than read a subtitle thats exactly the same as the dub :mad:,

And I myself know lots of ppl who don't care about the companies, I mean sh*t walk around New York City, no wait Walk around ANY CITY you'll ALWAYS see TONS of stores selling bootlegs, and anime, OR just PPL selling it. Why you think they sell it? cuz THEY KNOW that ppl sometimes JUST can't afford the damn real deal, its just too much so they see an oppertunity and they take it.

[Taltos]

you all realise that foreign anime licenses are one of the few things keeping the industry afloat in japan right ? The japanese economy is ailing right now, and the anime industry isn't immune, it's one of the reasons you see korean animators being used in a lot of series.

[SkIzZoL]

didn't know that

[tzuendaniel]

Most people respect the liscensor's wishes of not distributing/subbing the anime anymore, but as the consumer, I don't have any extra money (which technically makes me not a consumer since I don't buy the product :p ) to use on obtaining some anime that I'm already addicted to.
However, I wouldn't want the animators to stop working because they no longer have any income.

[rejectshia]

yeah, Taltos got that absolutely right. The Japanese anime/manga industry is still being paid the same salaries from twenty years ago, if i didn't read that wrongly... or was it ten... but what matters is that they really don't have any money. there's thousands maybe tens of thousands of very talented manga artists and animators in japan starving because they don't get the opportunity to showcase their own talents (because there's not enough money with the industry) while sadly america, which has enough money on her own to pull the anime industry out of its own recession, is wallowing in a pit of corruption and awful dubbing. this is why anime has barely begun to get recognised as a real form of art, because only the famous people like miyazaki get enormous budgets to do huge projects like spirited away.

if only there was a way to shoot all those consumer dollars into the right pocket (the ones in japan), things would get better i guess.

i don't want to generalise about americans and stuff, but sadly there is really no more soul in what americans have to sell.

does anyone here do cultural studies? it'll be interesting to hear something academic about cultural assimilation in america by the japanese and stuff like that.

[_venom]

Of course. Cause some jokes that involve the mispronunciation of words in Japanese will always make sense when they translate it into English or any other language. Oh wait... no, I don't think so.

that's why (most) fansub groups are considerate enough to _explain_ such a joke via a note at the top of the screen


Altering anime? I'm guessing big breasts and plenty of blood are quite part of foreign cultures. It's not like Americans have as much blood spurting out of them when they get injured. Hmm... you're right. We do take out too much foreign things like those. Please forgive the American industry and trying to censor things from children. We're too immature. Big breasts and lots of blood are part of nature.

the problem is that american companies try to make alot of anime children's anime, even when they were nothing of the kind in japan, if they just kept them to the intended audience, they wouldn't have to edit them (but then they would get less viewers (you have to admit most children watch more tv than their parents), meaning less profit, which is vital for a comercial company/station)


And about the biggest industry in porn and such. I'm sorry, but I think we try to prevent children from watching porn or violent movies. I believe the last time I went into a Software Etc. (gaming store) and tried to get Counter-Strike for the PC, I couldn't because I was too young. And then there was also this time when I wanted to buy Dead Or Alive 3, but I couldn't. Also, many a times, I haven't been able to enter R-rated movies without an adult ( but maybe that's cause I look like a kid since I can manage to enter with a kid's ticket ^^;; ). I guess America is just trying to hard to secure the kids. And yes, this may not apply to all stores in America since I bet very few actually do what my local Software Etc. does, but at least we try to prevent the support in violence and porn.

this argument (and the policy at your gamestore) is derived from the fear that violent games/movies might make a child into a possible killer/rapist/terrorist/whatever.
those violent games/movies in some cases do contribute to the violence a child commits in later life, but there are no conclusive studies that this is always true, and how a child was raised are more influential... but this is another subject, i'm just trying to say that the bad influences of blood/gore/violence/sex is overrated alot in america (or the netherlands are just unique that with more sex/action on tv the crime rate among youngsters is lower that in america)


I'm assuming that you are quite well-knowledgable about American voice actors. Heck! You're probably friends with all of them since you know that they just care about only getting paid a lot and fast. Yea... I guess watching the Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete CD on how they made the game proved that they didn't care. It's not like they spent countless hours trying to perfect the voice dubbing or try to get into the mood of the character. Darn... biggest waste of time in my life.

maybe i put it the wrong way, what i meant to say was that Japanese voice-actors in my (and my friends') oppinion put more soul into their voice acting, which gives a more natural feel to the voices, which i prefer above the american ones (which often have a kind of a pausy way of speaking (dunno how to say this well))

sorry if my comments sound(ed) to much like an attack on american culture, there's nothing wrong with it, there are just some parts of it which are a bit hypocrite :)

ps: if this thing is to long: admins feel free to remove all the quoted bits :)

[Chaotic Heavens]

Ok, before this begins to sound like a flame war or anything, I really do understand your opinion on the matter. There are a lot of hypocritical beliefs, statements, ethics, etc. in the United States, but that doesn't just stand for the United States alone. Many nations have their hypocritical points and views, it's just that the US continuously tries to be an attention loser. :D


that's why (most) fansub groups are considerate enough to _explain_ such a joke via a note at the top of the screen

Meh... then they might as well not dub the whole thing in general and just clearly sub the anime. But then what's the point? Fansubs would clearly dominate that industry since it is free. Dubbing is created for people that want to hear a language they understand so they don't have to read the subtitles. Of course, the brightest idea would be to just make a whole new joke that is understandable in the culture of the language that the anime is dubbed in. And no, it is not censoring foreign culture. It is just trying to relate to something people wouldn't understand as a joke to something that they would.

I, myself, find it ridiculous to make a joke that I wouldn't understand whether it was explained to me or not. It's just out of the way and inconvenient. Sort of like an "inside joke". When someone explains it to you, it doesn't have the same effect as if you knew it from the start. So by simply making a whole new joke, I think they can find a good standing point. In essence, the mood is still the same and that's what the anime artists are probably looking for. To set the mood for that scene and hopefully work with it.


the problem is that american companies try to make alot of anime children's anime, even when they were nothing of the kind in japan, if they just kept them to the intended audience, they wouldn't have to edit them (but then they would get less viewers (you have to admit most children watch more tv than their parents), meaning less profit, which is vital for a comercial company/station)

I agree with you on this. Some companies just try too hard to make an anime that isn't originally made for kids to be a show for kids. But I'm assuming that the problem is that no adult/non-kid television networks are willing to have uncensored anime on their network due to possible low ratings. And please don't say that they are greedy jerks for not willing to try to do that because a lot of money is involved and I'm assuming that no one is willing to put that much money on the line when percentages and statistics show signs of loss. It's rare when someone bets their life savings on a horse that has little chance of winning.


maybe i put it the wrong way, what i meant to say was that Japanese voice-actors in my (and my friends') oppinion put more soul into their voice acting, which gives a more natural feel to the voices, which i prefer above the american ones (which often have a kind of a pausy way of speaking (dunno how to say this well))

Psss... of course it would be more natural. The animations for the mouth and face expressions are made to fit with the Japanese language. In any dub ( not just English ), it is quite difficult to work with the original animation. First, you have to translate the script so that it has almost the same concept that the characters were trying to portray. Then you have to make those words you want fit in with the mouth motions. Those two processes may seem quite simple, yet are probably time consuming because many actors have to spend countless hours getting the timing correct. The only possibly solution to this is by simply adding/subtracting frames and adding their own mouth motions. Of course, someone will probably complain about this also since now they are desecrating the "original" artwork. Pretty hard to appease everyone.

[Chaotic Heavens]

Who's doing the generalization now? :p

The pot calling the kettle black?

Oooh... I guess sarcasm isn't well caught here. I didn't say that big breasts and violence wasn't part of the American culture. Nor did I say that it was part of foreign culture. I clearly said:


I'm guessing big breasts and plenty of blood are quite part of foreign cultures.

There are probably more than just those two things in a foreign culture, but as of late, that's the only argument I have seen attacking the American industry for. All people complain about are that they are cutting out too much breast scenes and lots of blood... Hmm... please complain about different things than?


Azumanga Daiou would get a G rating even if left uncut, yet ADV felt the NEED to turn the setting from "English class in Japan" to "Spanish class in America." Censor? Censor what? Foreign cultures?

I don't understand how that's censoring foreign cultures? Is learning a new language in a nation part of the culture? Please enlighten me how the change of setting is a censorship of Japanese culture. Maybe I'm naive, but as far as the anime goes, it's all the same. Learning a new language in any nation is basically the same, hardly any difference. Don't see how that censors anything besides the fact that the students aren't Japanese anymore. *gasp* A sin!!!

[alucard69]

i so agree with the ichigo100% The least amount of money that is spent to make a product, the better for the companies. because more money is save and more money can be earn and that's how the business work and stealing fansubs for their own is a new low for the american companies and thinking about Final Fantasy 7: Advent children coming over to North America and getting butchered like all the other great animes, That would really piss me off!!!!

[Chaotic Heavens]

Alucard, then don't watch the English dubbed version. Go buy yourself the DVD version in Japan or get a fansub (when it comes out). It's not that hard to avoid dubs. It's quite easy. Just don't watch them. Ignore them. You leave them alone and they will leave you alone.

Kerii, it all makes sense now. Changing the settings, culture, and life styles into something that viewer can understand is heresy. Yes, maybe it's censorship on one hand, but making sense to the viewer on another? English in English in Japan. Pretty weird theory. Also, they would have to change the scripts anyways. It's bound to happen, whether it's because of the change of settings or not. Well, you can keep the setting and possibly the script as long as you want a lot of small little sidenotes telling you every little joke that was in Japanese or involved the Japanese culture. Oh joy... I love reading side notes!!! :D

P.S. It should have never been dubbed in my opinion. It was just stupid to even try.

[_venom]

I don't understand how that's censoring foreign cultures? Is learning a new language in a nation part of the culture? Please enlighten me how the change of setting is a censorship of Japanese culture. Maybe I'm naive, but as far as the anime goes, it's all the same. Learning a new language in any nation is basically the same, hardly any difference. Don't see how that censors anything besides the fact that the students aren't Japanese anymore. *gasp* A sin!!!

well, censoring is the removal off something, and since the japanese culture bit (signs, setting, names, etc.) of the series is removed, i can pretty surely say it's censored...


Well, you can keep the setting and possibly the script as long as you want a lot of small little sidenotes telling you every little joke that was in Japanese or involved the Japanese culture. Oh joy... I love reading side notes!!! :D

of course in series as that one thingy mentioned (god i love my shortterm memory), which revolve around the entire culture of a country, it's pointless to use sidenotes, since you would not be able to see the animation then, but in for example Naruto, sometimes in techniques references are made to japanese gods, and then a small sidenote saying that Amaterasu is the japanese sun goddess won't hurt

[teapot]

:eek: OMG the old " Legal-Illegal " stuff.....
Well lets keep it short what we do here is 100% illegal ( but we keep on doing it because we are no millionairs ;) )

Companies making shitty translations for more profit nothing new there either.
I was shocked though to read that they americanised an anim ( on the basis that americans are too stupid to understand an other culture ?) could be possible but it sure is like going out in the street raping a girl because you have an itch and then saying in court that that is completely acceptable behaviour for you but that they are unable to adjust to your "cultural differences ".......... :rolleyes: that would be condemmed to a heavy prison sentence and companies who do that should get fined by the japanese artists for raping their "little baby !!!

then cutting and adjusting things to keep " OUR POOR INNOCENT CHILDREN FROM HAVING NIGHTMARES......"
That is hypocritical those same people are proud of their children when they come back home with good notes about a redaction of a newspaper they had to do for school....
Soo just open a newspaper and .. gore and death is clearly depicted there, though they'll censor the dead policeman, all other dead bodies are clear to recognise under the sheets, after all they were the baddies or the poor victims of those terrible bad people. And then the television news ....
Well we see lots of violence and dead people as well but nice political sencoring keeps the dead and torn pieces of people only of innocent bystanders of the "terrorist " attack and any dead marines in Irak will never be shown only those "terrible" , and very dead , terrorrist will be shown. After all those poor kids need realtime info but do not need to see the horrors of war ........... ( cq that soldiers from THEIR country got killed as well that would truly be shocking... dead terrorist are NOT traumatic at all ....... :eek: )
And let's forget the live shows like Jerry Springer where you will hear "piep" every other sentence....

Now censoring hentai.... well kids do not understand "cause-action", have no idea of emotional repercussions ( or that is what they are saying here in the forum... ) I agree on the emotional repercussions but ....
Gosh .... in my country they already have this kind of (sex)talk between young girls.
At 10 years they start thinking about having sex..... at 12 years they already
have done it, and if not, you are the poor kid who must not be normal and get nagged about it by the others ..... at 13 they tell it their parents ( or their parents get the advise to get the kids the "pill" ..... from doctors who do not want to treat an other abortion. )
Now in the USA kids do not think about it, soo have no permission of the gouvernment to buy condoms under age 18... they say .... :confused:
I very much doubt that kids in the us are other then in my own country so that is inviting trouble ( The usa has the most young mothers between age 13-18 of the modern capitalistic world.... )
Good thing they have lots of councellors of how to deal with a young mother ..... sounds weird to me but hey .. I'm no american :rolleyes:
Aids can be treated after all as well ( in your dreams ).
So an agelabel should be enough, after all you do not give kids something "shocking " to see..... most know all about it and perhaps even more than is shown in hentai......

Soo lets resume this in political terms .....

1 : People need to get no info on different cultures ( so americanise anim )
2 : People need to see that we are the good guys and only baddies die, and the people the baddies killed ( people in the army and police never get killed, or in numbers that are insignificant when compared to the number of baddies after all you never see them dead in the news so that must be true ...... :rolleyes: )
3 : People do not need to see shocking sex in hentai it is not realistic after all .... ( true reality can be worse or better ;) )

Now what was this talk all about ...
Me being a frustrated person .... NO !!
Me being under age and want to see sex unsencored in anim... NO ( I'm 34 years and sexlive is active and inventive I get nice ideas from hentai from time to time :cool: :o )
Soo what is the real end-conclusion to all this ...
Understand this and be very happy because all comes down to money and power !!

WELCOME TO THE BRAINWASHED WORLD !!! :D :D

[z2ei]

Teapot: You are aware that most hentai is censored in Japan, right? As in..the American companies don't censor it. The video masters are already censored most of the time.

[teapot]

sorry but .. no, most in the master are not censored even in japan they get those nice little "pics" on the sensitive parts afterwards so that us companies just need to depic those little censored stuff with a small program ( or just get their hands on the uncensored one .... )
But most of my post was not really about hentai but more about brainwashing as you might have noticed :p

( and btw it is possible to get uncensored stuff in japan if you know where to go :D :cool: )

[isoptera4]

Licensed anime does one nice thing for us. It provides very high quality dvds of the shows which have the original japanese audio and subtitles for those who hate dubbing, me included, although domestic releases are very expensive

[antchuck]

From my point of view its troublesome when Anime gets licenced in US. I'm not from US so I can't buy those DVDs (too expensive to ship'em) and most of funsubing groups stop distributing them. If at least raws were easily awailable ... (most polish funsub groups do softsubs)

[Shintoshi]

Someone seriously needs to put an end to Funimation and 4Kids' reign of terror. That having been said, although I lack the means (funds and strict parents) to purchase liscenced anime and manga, (and yes, I realize manga isn't mentioned) will do so when the oportunity presents itself.
I'm not really on either side when it comes to liscenced anime. I like the idea of fansubbers continuing their work on an anime, despite it having been liscenced, because there are some people who lack the money to obtain all of the anime they want. There are also groups that do horrible jobs when it comes to dubbing an anime (Funimation & 4Kids). Althought there is nonetheless still the subtitles, certain companies do horrendous jobs in the subtitles. There is one, liscenced, anime that even the sub is done poorly; such as names being changed (completely) and the dialog having been ruined.
Another problem is if too few episodes have been placed on a DVD. If a show runs on for something like 50+ episodes (I'm not certain where I'd draw the line), if the company only offers about 2 episodes per DVD, that is getting too cheap / greedy and, in my opinion, not something a person should waste hard earned cash on.
On the other side, by buying anime, it supports the production of additional shows and encourages companies to liscence more as well. If the people who download anime are doing so simply because they're too cheap to buy it, then I have a problem with such behaviour.
I can say that my downloading of anime and manga is a mixture between lack of money, strict parents, my love of almost any non-perverted anime, my caution of buying something I think I'll feel my money was wasted on, and saddly, somewhat of a stingy personality.
I haven't bought any DVDs since all the anime I've considered has already been burned onto DVDs, thought I've got a slowly growing collection of mangas, despite having copies of the volumes on my computer as well (sometimes before buying the paperback, sometimes after).
Sorry for writing so much and perhaps wasting your time.

[koobeokobe]

i dont care as long as i can dl it its all good

[antchuck]

Well, one can always wait for Kick Ass Anime or another ripping group to do what they do best :). Although it usually takes a lot of time and I'm quite impatient when it comes to anime.

[starscalling]

well sorry to step on a toe
but **** microlith and crew
check this
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=25005
i state what i think
but no dont stop
cause i will NEVER buy something i havn't seen
unless its a gift

[HFJuon]

I personally don't feel the issue is money. The question is whether the American anime fan really wants subs or dubs. A sub let's you experience the original audio & video productions of the original anime & a dub doesn't. Many times the dub does not measure up to the original & that's why fans go searching for subs. You can't buy the subs in stores or on-line so the only place to get them is through fan-subbing.

I mentioned this in another thread but part of the reason Naruto is so great is because it has some of the best voices & audio works ever produced in an anime. Without fan-subs fans would never get to experience that. They would again get a dub that makes use of the same tired voices that they use pretty much on all dubs these days.

In that respect the American distributors like ADV are greedy because they are just spewing out the same old audio works they use on most of their DVD's. It's getting old fast. I would prefer paying the original studios some bucks for the originals subbed by the fans than the American distributors.

[starscalling]

but as long as they think there is money in suing ppl they will i would think
even if its mostly just hundreds of millions to scare ppl mostly, just driving up prices in the first place with the same or worse shitty wuality and no incentive to change as the bite has been taken from the dog. there is no pressure to change otherwise :/

[Longbowwing]

i never buy any anime from america companies anyway, because their dubs suck. voice are terrible. there is no way i can support in anyway. i know they also support japanese subs, but so what, as long as there is dubs within the anime dvd, i dont want it. i dont want sometime later, accidentally click on the dub option and then force myself to heard those awful dub i never want to heard.

beside, i like sub better, even all my friends like subs. because they are much more cheaper than the dubs anyway.

also there are anime stores out there are selling anime DVD that are not part of the American companies, why not those american companies dont go after them, why come after us???

[HFJuon]

The problem as I see it falls on the relationship between the Japanese studios & the fan-subbers. The hands-off/ignore policy that the studios had for years worked well because the fan-subs pushed sales at conventions. But with anime & manga growing in America to a 4 bil/yr industry that policy won't work any more. Companies like ADV don't want competing versions for the English market & a sub is exactly what that is.

The solution of course is that the Japanese studios retain the right to sub their original versions for overseas markets. Those studios then would dictate the relationship between their works & the fan-sub commuity. Companies like ADV would lose their bite. The Japanese studios would then have to decide how much of an influence free fan-subs have on sales at conventions & whether they could make sales on the subs themselves. I believe they can.